Oh lord we worship in christianity's church
and glory in the finery your cash bequeaths
to the bank accounts and investments of
the roman catholic church and others.
(R.C. church the wealthiest organisation on the planet)
Deafen our ears oh lord to the ease with which
a camel may pass through the eye of a needle
before a rich man may be allowed to enter
into the kingdom of heaven ....
(as described in the bible)
Deafen our ears lord to reports of the corruption
of rampant peadophilia in your churches
blind our eyes to the realisation that christianity
has bastardised your glory.
(the pope asked us to forgive his church)
WAIT NO !!! ......
Open our ears to the realisation that those who
pontificate and preach daily their devotion to a "truth"
which infected their childhood minds with fear are those
who defile your truth with their blinkered practices.
For the truth is before us daily in creation.
God is creation all around us and creation is god.
To love and respect god in creation needs no ancient book
nor finery of robes. It is the love of existence itself.
hold in your arms a newborn child
and tell yourself it is not so.
Will we see any MEANINGFUL response
from those who support the way
religion has been inflicted upon us
by christianity in any comments here?
Or just more stale rhetoric.
-
Author:
dusk arising (
Offline) - Published: July 13th, 2020 00:01
- Comment from author about the poem: Fed up with seeing holier than thou idiots on here preaching their rhetorical self penned bullshit to an insulted audience, my piece contains a couple of home truths they REFUSE to address for they have NO ANSWERS which an intelligent person will find acceptable. Most of us are intelligent writers on mps and have a spiritual sense which is enlightened through our existence on this beautiful world and our experiences. For thousands of years people in the west experienced the same spiritual awareness until a power base - the christian church - came along and forced people to worship a new version of what god is and if you disagreed you were tortured and killed. It is there in our history books... centuries of it FEAR! Times have changed but creation and the truth has not. I suggest that one be true to themselves and do not fear the god of love nor of those who want you to be fearful of love. Love conquers all. (I use the word lord in my post only to mimic its use by christians). Everyone has a right to their own belief. I ridicule those who try to use MPS as a pulpit to talk down to me and likeminded people.
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Comments6
OK, here is the rhetoric:
the bible is just a book which leads people into a place where they are brainwashed into thinking it is the truth.
I used to believe and was in fact a Chaplain in the christian church but within my belief was the overriding thought that MY GOD was not the one the christians believed in.
Then came that time where my wife was struck down with dementia and eventually passed away with it.
She had worshipped and sang the praises of the christian god all her life but where was god when she needed him/she/it - him/she/it just was not there.
So came the day where I was in church singing in the choir and as I was singing I realised that the idea of christianity was a lot of lying drivel and I rejected being a christian.
At that moment it was as though a great weight had been lifted from me and my life was free again.
That feeling has continued, I still believe in God, MY GOD, not the one the christian church believes in.
I also know, and have always known that My Spirit is within me and will always be there when the blink of an eye on this earth passes.
As Dave Allen used to say at the end of his programmes: "May your God go with you"
Rhetoric over.
Andy
Thats not what i meant by rhetoric at all. You have recounted you own very valid life experience unique to your life. Having rejected christianity for its shortcomings you are similar to me. I also rejected christianity when, at what some might call a tragedy in my life, i realised the christian version of god was not worthy of worship. Thank you for your words as always.
It is so gratifying to see so many others commenting on your words d a.
Andy
A couple of angles on this: Another ridicule is: 'Let's go to church on Sundays to see men in long dresses'. This, and some other things, are Old Testament practices. We're in New Testament days now. I suppose we bear with them out of habit - churches where vestments are worn.
I agree about RC - don't get me started.... as they say!
I know you are a man of the christian faith and that you may take offense to my post today. Of all the christian writers you are the last one i would wish to offend Orchidee. You have always responded to my comments with words of your own choosing rather than rhetoric and maintained good humour. There is always a sense of goodwill in your writings and responses.
Thanks dusk. I won't start on the RC. Sometimes they and CofE fight like cat and dog.
tho raised as a Christian, I turned toward Buddha and found the way that suits me well .. you pose an interesting argument here my friend...
Thank you Neville. Always appreciate your comments.
I was born a realist and remain ever so - this strikes many chords with me and I take my hat off to you for posting it.
I guess i just get fed up with being preached at by the holier than thou bigots and decided to give them the opportunity to address a glaring inconsistency here.
That a benevolent CREATOR could demand penance and fear as a means of reverence is uncomprehencible to me.
Humans feeling insignificant and feeling overpowered by their environment/surroundings created an external entity for hope, and these weaknesses were used by organized religion to usurp and control the masses.
Let each individual garnish whatever internal strength they need to live through the negative and find the positive, even if this internal strength is enforced through external means.
Thanks you for encouraging us to participate
And I welcome your refreshing comment Suresh. Thank you.
Everytime I hear a New Born Baby cry
Or touch a Leaf ~ Or see the Sky
Then I know why ~ I BELIEVE !
The potential in a New Born Baby to be a Mozart - a Constable - an Einstein - Queen Elizabeth II causes us to believe in a Creative Force ~ god !
The Miracle of PHOTOSYNTHESIS in a LEAF to produce GLUCOSE (& Cellulose & Starch) from water (H2O) in the ground and carbon dioxide (CO2) in the Air ~ to help feed the Human Race and all of the animal Kingdom. This miracle causes us to believe in a Creative Force ~ god !
The NIGHT SKY reveals we are not alone in the Universe ~ there are other Galaxies apart from the Milky Way and other Suns with orbiting Plants possibly Earth Like Planets !
The Universe also causes us to believe in a Creative Force ~ god !
WE look through a MICROSCOPE ~ god is there
WE look around @ Nature - god is there
WE look through a TELESCOPE ~ god is there
You mention *god in creation* three times in V 5. This is PANTHEISM ~ seeing god in everything and this is supported by those who have replied ~ except STEVE (Ochidee) who loves the Creation but being a Christian also choses to Love (Worship) the Creator GOD. STEVE is amazing because all (> 95%) of his postings are a CHRISTIAN HYMN with LYRICS and a POEM based on Scripture (The Bible) But as you point out He does it (and His responses) with Humour & Graciouness & Fido of Course ! He is an exceptional Man !
Angela & I being Scientists are more aware of the Wonder of Life on Earth and the complexity and uniqueness of the Biosynthetic Pathways that make metabolism possible and DNA which preserves the uniqueness of Species and defines the Uniqueness of Mankind. As Kepler said *Science is only thinking Gods thoughts after Him* It is the Beauty - Purpose - Order & Design in nature which forces us to believe in a creative force directing & controlling it all a CREATOR which you (in verse 5) have chosen to call *god^. Pantheism is worshipping the WHOLE (PAN) CREATION rather than just the CREATOR who THEISTS call *GOD^ Angela & I were raised in Chriatian Families and consequently have never doubted the existance of *GOD*. However as Adults (32 & 36) and finding no conflict with our belief in GOD & SCIENCE we continue to be Commited & Practicing Christians. We find personal & corporate value in Prayer ~ Bible Study & Church Fellowship. These things are an integral part of our Psyche. We only occasionally post Christian Poems and then not to proselize but to share our Joy. Every Member of MPS has free-will to accept or reject any Message our or Steves postings on MPS. It is a neutral site. Please note that today our posting about a Civil Rights Leader (who was martyred) is NOT about the CHRISTIAN ~ Martin Luther King ~ but the HINDU ~ Mahatma Ghandi. Thanks for your posting it made us THINK & WE are still thinking !
Peace & Joy to You & Yours
Love BRIAN & ANGELA 💛💛💛
Wow, in your opening lines you declare that the likes of the named famously talented people cause you to believe in god the creator. I begin to see why you ignore any reference to your omnipotent god reigning his/her/its wrath down upon ordinary folk when he creates a hurricane or drought which kills so many.
No where do you address the bigotry of your Roman Catholic Church outlined in my verses one, two and three. INCONVENIENT EMBARRASSING DUAL STANDARDS of YOUR church YOU BRUSH ASIDE without comment. WHY... cant you face up to BLATANT NON CHRISTIAN ACTIVITY of your church? Jesus taught that it was impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven ... THATS YOUR GOAL AFTER ALL isnt it. So HOW DO YOU EXCUSE YOUR CHURCHES NON CHRISTIAN ACTION other than to accept it as bigotry. Just another falsehood of your chosen religion which you cannot validate.
What about your TOTALY IGNORING the horrors of peadophilia rife in your chosen church. The harm done to countless lives IN THE NAME OF YOUR GOD. Putting fear and both mental and physical sexual injury into children and ruining/tainting their lives.
Once again your comments are an ...Oooh lets not go there... lets CHANGE THE SUBJECT and introduce a large text of irrelevance.
All very well to claim you are both scientists, well so am I. But your church has a very colourful history of avoiding scientific fact whilst it MAKES ITS VAST AMOUNTS OF MONEY. Galileo was lucky not to be murdered by your church who instead branded him HERETIC for 300 years FOR HIS SCIENTIFIC TRUTHS.
There is no need for any title YOU APPEND to peoples individual spiritual belief in a strange attempt of yours simplify or catalogue it for your convenience. It is their personal property which they are learning and experiencing as they live day to day rather than be indoctrinated with mumbo jumbo by corrupt established churches of dubious integrity such as yours.
True to what you have shown before, your comment reads like a teacher taking a junior school class but that will not wash here among free thinking adults. Your integrity becomes questionable when in referring to two civil rights activists you give one only his full name and without his title yet only identify the other by his title and not his full name. Surely even junior school kids would pick up on that one. Kind of shows you only scratched the surface of the lives of these great men for appearances sake. To be seen to be writing the right stuff.
I have no doubt that both of you are generous souls with your love and are good well intentioned people. As is evident I have deep felt issues with the organisation within which you choose to carry out your religious devotions and other established christian churches. These issues are based upon CONTRADICTIONS which exist with these churches practices which they are INCAPABLE OF JUSTIFYING again self evident by their inability to address the issues when raised, as is your set of comments upon my post here.
BRIAN HERE ~ Frirstly DA ~ let me thank you for a very detailed and objective critique of my reply and my sins of omission ! Would that all exchanges on MPS where that civilised. In my reply I wanted to sustain an argument for a CREATIVE FORCE behind the Physical Universe and the Biosphere on Planet Earth. Which Humanists call the *VITAL FORCE or NATURE* and which Angela & I (following the teaching of the Bible) call the GODHEAD ~ Father Son & Holy Spirit. Jesus chose 12 Diciples ~ Judas Betrayed HIM ~ Peter Denied HIM and THOMAS doubted HIM and only JOHN stood with Him at the Cross ! 12 Chosen Disciples ~ Pillars of the New Testament Church founded in AD33 and a 97% Failure Rate in Loyalty ~ not a very good start ! WHY because JESUS chose HUMAN BEINGS Adams not Angels to prove a point that a Church run by Human Beings could work and still does for the GOOD & BLESSING of the Human Race. Because of the way the Disciples performed and the record of the History of the Christian Church (whic is well documented warts & all) for the last 1987 Years I saw no point in trying to argue against your negative picture of the Christian Church. This is because from the Pope downwards we are All Adams & not Angels ~ Sinners & not Saints. You choose to ignore all the GOOD & HUMANITARIAN work carried out in the Name of the CHURCH and focus on the NEGATIVE. The same is true of of POLITICAL PARTIES ! Angela & I are Socialists and therefore vote LABOUR despite its anti-SEMITISM and COMMUNIST tendencies. Its not a perfect Party ~ neither are any of the others ~ but we would consider ourselves to be FOOLS if we didnt vote ! The same is true of the many different Denominations of the CHRISTIAN CHURCH ! We are Members of a Free Evangelical Church because we believe in the value of Corporate Prayer & Worship and the Communion Service when we celebrate the Atoning Work of Christs Death for us on the Cross in AD 33. We do not pay our Leadership all our offerings are by *free-wlll* and our Elders (four) and Decons (12) do not wear robes or special Regalia. We are a group of 100 Ordinary People ~ Redeemed by Gods Grace ! Our Church looks like a Village Hall and in the week we clear it for Mums & Tots ~ Youth Work ~ Pensioners Lunch Club etc. No Ritual no hocus-pocus just simple Christian Activites. There are thousands of such Churches all over the World and there must be some in Your Area.
I am trying to explain why I didnt argue against your one-sided image of the Church Today & the negative aspects of Church History because it would have been futile !
Thanks again for your poem and your very objective reply to our reply. We are exhorted to *Reason Together* like intelligent friendly People ~ not go for each ithers throats like Wolves !
Love ~ Peace & Joy
Brian & Angela 💛💛💛
FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL On all counts you fail pathetically through YOUR WILLFUL CHOICE NOT TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES RAISED which would appear to qualification for such title as BIGOT or COWARD.
Declaring yourself to be a scientist had given me, and those here watching, a hope that you would post a more clincal response rather than yet another episode of your irrelevant side stepping attempt to CHANGE THE SUBJECT, but no... true to form you disappoint.
You may be capable of pulling the wool over your own eyes and and also enjoying life amid the riches of your chosen churches disgusting behavior but all eyes see you for what you are. 48 readers on MPS.
Thanks again DA ~ for an objective response. I am not sidestepping the History of the Christian Church because it is HISTORY for all to see and ~ for Angela & I ~ makes very SAD reading, But as Ive said the NEGATIVE HISTORY of Political Parties should not make Poeple waste their hard won vote ~ the main UK Political Parties (Left - Right - Centre) have all done some Good. The corruption lies in the fact that Political Parties are run by Humans who take their eyes off the PRINCIPLES and follow PRIDE & PREJUDICE. The same is true of the Christian Church ! We do (claim to) have access to God through Prayer and The Bible(The Word of GOD) for Guidence ~ BUT ~ we are all still Human and prone to Sin & Error we cannot attain SINLESS PERFECTION on EARTH. B ut we must balance all the error you and others talk about with all the GOOD done by the Church in the last almost 2000 years and Organisations today like the YMCA ~ The Hospice Movement ~ Christian Aid ~ Christian Aviation Fellowship ~ Sammaritans Purse & The History of Prison Reform ~ Abolition of Slavery ~ Christain Education & Chrristian Medical Work etc etc. All these positive outcomes make Angela & I pleased to be Members of a Local & the Universal Christian Church.
I would take you to task on one of your Statements ~ You blame GOD for the increased Hurricanes & Droughts when these are MANMADE due to Global Warming ~ God gave MANKIND the responsibility to care for *The Environmental Monitoring & Protection of Planet Earth* a responsibility he has renaged for greed & Self-advancement since the Industrial Revolution ! If you do believe God sent the Hurricanes & Droughts (NEGATIVE) you forgot to thank HIM for the POSITIVES He blesses each one of us with 24/7. The Water Cycle (which gives us potable water) the 21% Oxygen in the Air (which facilitates Respiration) & the Free Energy form the Sun which maintains OUR PLANET at (now) an ambient temperature of 16C = 61F. None of us would last 10 minutes on Mars or Venus ~ ask yourself WHY ???? Angela & I are Practicing Christians (Despite all the Historical & Present Corruption in the Church) beause we have seen it working positively in both our Families and in our own lives. We dont have a hidden agenda to Evangelise MPS and unlike ORCHIDEE (Who we all Love & approve of !) we dont post CHRISTIAN POEMS every day ~ but sometimes we do mention our FAITH (in a personal way) if pertinant to the POEM. We want to be Friends with all members irrespective of Country or Creed and would welcome them to be Friends with us. MPS is a Free & Open Secular site and should be respected as such ! We can all learn more about Poetry (and life from each other). Those of us who are still very Young (under 40) acknowlege we still have much to learn and always value the Knowledge & Advice of our Elders ~ like Yourself ~ UOAP (Bill) ~ UNSUB ~ Orchidee ~ Mike & Goldfinch (Andy) & FAY etc. We always value Objective & Constructive Critisism of the Style & Subject of our Poetry. Thanks for caring .............. !
Love - Peace & Joy
Brian & Angela 💛
Your church is the wealthiest organisation on the planet TODAY. Jesus preached that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. A DIRECT CONTRADICTION EXISTS AND YOU CANNOT BRING YOURSELVES TO DEAL WITH IT. Duplicity, LIES, falsehood, A CON, a scam, A MONEYMAKING RACKET.... YOU CHOOSE ... but you won't even begin to address it. It proves you have been suckered into believing a bunch of falshoods.
Thanks again DA ~ we are reploughing old ground and this will be my last comment on the Subject. I would use the analogy of Political Parties again. They are all corrupt past present & future because they are run by Humans ~ the same is sadly true of the Church ! However when it comes to the next General Election the majority of MPS MEMBERS will probably vote (for the local Candidate) and ignore the curruption of the Party (past & present) They vote for.. Some American members may even vote for TRUMP !
Angela & I belong to a Local Church (We are not responsible for the RC Church etc which you go on about ~ they are reponsible for themselves !) The BIBLE teaches *The Love of Money is the root of all evil* Angela & I work in the NHS & Eduction and hav enever had a *BONUS* in our lives. Most of our Members are Working Class an our Church has a Mortgage to pay fro a Car Park so the Church could be of more use to the Community ! Mums & Tots groups ~ Pensioners Lunch Club etc. We only just meet our expenses from YEAR to YEAR. If other Churches have amassed great Wealth by Fair Means or Foul that is their problem not ours. We are reponsible for our own Congregation and their Spiritual Growth & Development. If we were Church of England or Catholics or Mormons etc I would have to answer your incongruitues but WE ARE NOT. We are individual Christians and like Steve (Orchidee) and others we put a lot into it ~ and get a lot out of it Spiritually through Prayer ~ Bible Study ~ Communion ~ Fellowship etc so we are Happy to call ourselves Christians. I would however still contend that the Worldwide Christian Church (2.3 billion members ~ one third of the Worlds Population) does far more POSITIVE GOOD than the past & present NEGATIVES you keep reiterating. GOD does not expect the *UNIVERSAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH to be PERFECT ~ just COMPASSIONATE !* The same is true of Sir Keith Harman & the Labour Party ~ but Angela & I will still vote for Him ~ and in the same manner (WARTS & ALL) we will continue to be Practising Christians and Pray for the Universal Christian Church that it will be more as God intended it to be SALT & LIGHT in the Earth ~ AMEN
Love ~ Peace & Joy to YOU & YOURS
Brian & Angela 💛💛💛
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